Are there any alternatives to the Jeppesen binders? Even their plastic ones are
kinda pricey. Thanks...


-John
*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
American*

C J Campbell ) wrote:

> You
> can also save a ton of money just getting Jeppview on CD-ROM and printing
> out only those plates that you need on regular paper, punching your own
> holes, and putting them in the Acco binder. This is probably a lot cheaper
> than using NOS charts, even.

CJ, I have been back and forth with the decision of using JeppView rather
than the standard Airway Manual and I honestly do not see the savings that
you claim.

For example, JeppView Northeast costs $290 for a one-year subscription,
whereas the Airway Manual Northeast cost $330. OK, so $40 dollars cheaper
for the CD version and the time savings of not having to file the paper
revisions every 14 days. So far, so good.

However, include the cost and time spent printing and hole punching,
keeping in mind that a proficient pilot would want to print approaches at
all airports along an x/c route in the event of an emergency, and the cost
and time savings seems to evaporate.

What am I missing that I do not see the "ton of money" savings?



--
Peter












----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

"Peter R." wrote:

> C J Campbell ) wrote:
>
> > You
> > can also save a ton of money just getting Jeppview on CD-ROM and printing
> > out only those plates that you need on regular paper, punching your own
> > holes, and putting them in the Acco binder. This is probably a lot cheaper
> > than using NOS charts, even.

Another advantage is that you can print them out on 8 1/2 x 11 paper for a larger,
more colorful, easier-to-read chart. Charts don't change that fast, so the effort is
the biggest in the launch phase.

I posted a PDF file of a Jepp chart from JeppView imported into Acrobat. Print this out
at full page size, and the result is a piece of paper much better than a paper Jeppesen
chart.

The file should appear on alt.binaries.pictures.aviation if the incest photos will make
room.

In article >, > wrote:
>I posted a PDF file of a Jepp chart from JeppView imported into Acrobat.
>Print this out
>at full page size, and the result is a piece of paper much better than a
>paper Jeppesen
>chart.

Their website claims they use vector-based representations of the charts,
so a good export to PS/PDF should print at any size. It sure would be
nice if the government distributed their data that way!

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

Ben Jackson wrote:

>
> Their website claims they use vector-based representations of the charts,
> so a good export to PS/PDF should print at any size. It sure would be
> nice if the government distributed their data that way!

Their electronic charts are indeed vector-based, but they also consist mostly
of proprietary fonts that will not export to post script for a PDF file.

The only way you can print them is from within their software and your
license information takes a fair amount of the top of the chart. You will
note that the PDF file I posted has none of that; it's all chart. Granted,
it's a bitmap, but a very high resolution bit map.

<<mostly of proprietary fonts that will not export to post script for
a PDF file.>>

I do it all the time. I imported a drawing into CorelDraw so that I
could duplicate a lot of the symbols in order to draw my own charts.
I think the font they use is Helvetica; Arial is a fairly close match,
and to the casual observer, my charts look just like theirs.

Sporty's is now selling the entire set of FAA TPP's on a DVD for $9.95:


http://sportys.com/pilotshop/pages/chartviewer.cfm



"Ditch" > wrote in message
...
> Are there any alternatives to the Jeppesen binders? Even their plastic
ones are
> kinda pricey. Thanks...

In a previous article, "MichaelR" > said:
>Sporty's is now selling the entire set of FAA TPP's on a DVD for $9.95:
>http://sportys.com/pilotshop/pages/chartviewer.cfm

Are the TPPs themselve in PDF format, or what? It says you need a Windows
PC, but if the that's only for the wizzy chart viewer program and the
actual data is in a non-proprietary format, I might subscribe.

The screen shot http://sportys.com/pilotshop/images/step4l.gif looks an
AWFUL lot like a web browser with an Adobe Acrobat plugin looking at a
PDF.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
FAQs are like flatulence. Any asshole can produce them.
-- Toni L

MichaelR ) wrote:

> Sporty's is now selling the entire set of FAA TPP's on a DVD for $9.95:
>
>
> http://sportys.com/pilotshop/pages/chartviewer.cfm


Wow! Only $120 (US) for a year's worth of updates, versus Jeppesen's $772.

Maybe it's time to switch back.

--
Peter












----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

In a previous article, Peter R. > said:
>MichaelR ) wrote:
>> Sporty's is now selling the entire set of FAA TPP's on a DVD for $9.95:
>> http://sportys.com/pilotshop/pages/chartviewer.cfm
>Wow! Only $120 (US) for a year's worth of updates, versus Jeppesen's $772.

That's not *much* cheaper than Howie Keefe's Air Chart Systems. They
charge $200 for the whole country, but the problem is the damn updates - I
can never keep up with them and I keep losing the little cards. I love
their IFR chart atlas, though.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Orcs killed: none. Disappointing. Stubble update: I look rugged and
manly. Yes! Keep wanting to drop-kick Gimli. Holding myself back. Still
not King." - the very secret diary of Aragorn son of Arathron

"MichaelR" > writes:

>Sporty's is now selling the entire set of FAA TPP's on a DVD for $9.95:

Anyone know if this is just FAA data that's been repackaged or if it's
a proprietary derivative? I'm willing to buy Free data and make it
freely available.

--kyler

How long a x-country are we talking about? How many airports? I usually
end up with 15 or so pages for a flight.


"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> C J Campbell ) wrote:
>
> > You
> > can also save a ton of money just getting Jeppview on CD-ROM and
printing
> > out only those plates that you need on regular paper, punching your own
> > holes, and putting them in the Acco binder. This is probably a lot
cheaper
> > than using NOS charts, even.
>
> CJ, I have been back and forth with the decision of using JeppView rather
> than the standard Airway Manual and I honestly do not see the savings that
> you claim.
>
> For example, JeppView Northeast costs $290 for a one-year subscription,
> whereas the Airway Manual Northeast cost $330. OK, so $40 dollars cheaper
> for the CD version and the time savings of not having to file the paper
> revisions every 14 days. So far, so good.
>
> However, include the cost and time spent printing and hole punching,
> keeping in mind that a proficient pilot would want to print approaches at
> all airports along an x/c route in the event of an emergency, and the cost
> and time savings seems to evaporate.
>
> What am I missing that I do not see the "ton of money" savings?
>
>
>
> --
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption
=---

(Ditch) wrote in message >...
> Are there any alternatives to the Jeppesen binders? Even their plastic ones are
> kinda pricey. Thanks...
>
>Yes... buy the NOS plates and charts.

Greg Esres wrote:

> <<mostly of proprietary fonts that will not export to post script for
> a PDF file.>>
>
> I do it all the time. I imported a drawing into CorelDraw so that I
> could duplicate a lot of the symbols in order to draw my own charts.
> I think the font they use is Helvetica; Arial is a fairly close match,
> and to the casual observer, my charts look just like theirs.

That is essentially a recreation, which is beyond what I suspect most
folks would want to do. If you print to a post script file then distill
to a PDF file, they look awful.

Kyler Laird wrote:

> "MichaelR" > writes:
>
> >Sporty's is now selling the entire set of FAA TPP's on a DVD for $9.95:
>
> Anyone know if this is just FAA data that's been repackaged or if it's
> a proprietary derivative? I'm willing to buy Free data and make it
> freely available.
>
> --kyler

Next month, if on schedule, NACO will be issuing all approach charts in PDF
vector graphics format.

In article >, wrote:

> Next month, if on schedule, NACO will be issuing all approach charts in PDF
> vector graphics format.

Wow, that would be awesome. Where did you read that?

<<That is essentially a recreation, which is beyond what I suspect
most folks would want to do. If you print to a post script file then
distill to a PDF file, they look awful.>>

I think I wasn't clear.

I can create beautiful, flawless PDF files directly from JeppView
using either PDF Creator or Distiller.

There were some settings that had to be fiddled with, though I don't
remember exactly what they are now.

Greg Esres wrote:

> <<That is essentially a recreation, which is beyond what I suspect
> most folks would want to do. If you print to a post script file then
> distill to a PDF file, they look awful.>>
>
> I think I wasn't clear.
>
> I can create beautiful, flawless PDF files directly from JeppView
> using either PDF Creator or Distiller.
>
> There were some settings that had to be fiddled with, though I don't
> remember exactly what they are now.

I don't know how you could get that to work unless you cracked Jepp's 14
proprietary fonts and then pointed Distiller's job function to those
fonts. I know that will work.~

Roy Smith wrote:

> In article >, wrote:
>
> > Next month, if on schedule, NACO will be issuing all approach charts in PDF
> > vector graphics format.
>
> Wow, that would be awesome. Where did you read that?

I didn't. They did a demo at last October's Aeronautical Charting Forum and
passed a few around. I do know they had over 70% of them converted to vector
graphics by then, but they don't plan to release them until it's 100%.

As you may know, some miliatry charts have been in that format for a couple of
years and available on NIMA's web site.

Try changing the pdf output settings from the default. I think either
bitmap or outline will do it.

wrote:

> Greg Esres wrote:
>
> > <<That is essentially a recreation, which is beyond what I suspect
> > most folks would want to do. If you print to a post script file then
> > distill to a PDF file, they look awful.>>
> >
> > I think I wasn't clear.
> >
> > I can create beautiful, flawless PDF files directly from JeppView
> > using either PDF Creator or Distiller.
> >
> > There were some settings that had to be fiddled with, though I don't
> > remember exactly what they are now.
>
> I don't know how you could get that to work unless you cracked Jepp's 14
> proprietary fonts and then pointed Distiller's job function to those
> fonts. I know that will work.~

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

<<cracked Jepp's 14 proprietary fonts and then pointed Distiller's job
function to those fonts. ~>>

Nope. The fonts seem to have been rendered as vector drawings.

writes:

>Next month, if on schedule, NACO will be issuing all approach charts in PDF
>vector graphics format.

Has this been announced somewhere? I don't see it in their digital
products list.
http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/catalog/charts/digital/index

Now if I could just get a description of TFRs...

Thank you.

--kyler

FYI, NACO will be charging for their product...


(smackey) wrote in message >...
> (Ditch) wrote in message >...
> > Are there any alternatives to the Jeppesen binders? Even their plastic ones are
> > kinda pricey. Thanks...
> >
> >Yes... buy the NOS plates and charts.

In article >,
Kyler Laird > wrote:
>
>Now if I could just get a description of TFRs...

Can't you just parse the NOTAMs? Most of them are in a fairly predictable
format.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

>>
Can't you just parse the NOTAMs? Most of them are in a fairly predictable
format.
<<

I wish they'd be issued in lower case, and the boilerplate in some other font
or something.

Yes, I know it dates from the Telex days and I can reformat, but so can they
nowadays.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

In article >,
(Teacherjh) wrote:

> >>
> Can't you just parse the NOTAMs? Most of them are in a fairly predictable
> format.
> <<
>
> I wish they'd be issued in lower case, and the boilerplate in some other font
> or something.
>
> Yes, I know it dates from the Telex days and I can reformat, but so can they
> nowadays.
>
> Jose

I dn't mnd the upr cas so mch, bt I wsh thy wld us a fw mre vwls.

"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> (Teacherjh) wrote:
>
> > >>
> > Can't you just parse the NOTAMs? Most of them are in a fairly
predictable
> > format.
> > <<
> >
> > I wish they'd be issued in lower case, and the boilerplate in some other
font
> > or something.
> >
> > Yes, I know it dates from the Telex days and I can reformat, but so can
they
> > nowadays.
> >
> > Jose
>
> I dn't mnd the upr cas so mch, bt I wsh thy wld us a fw mre vwls.

DOH!!!

Kyler Laird wrote:

> writes:
>
> >Next month, if on schedule, NACO will be issuing all approach charts in PDF
> >vector graphics format.
>
> Has this been announced somewhere? I don't see it in their digital
> products list.
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/catalog/charts/digital/index
>
>

Not so far as I know, other than at last October's Aeronautical Charting Forum.
The NACO rep handed out sample files and said it would be April, 2004. Then again,
we're speaking of the government here.

(Ben Jackson) writes:

>>Now if I could just get a description of TFRs...

>Can't you just parse the NOTAMs? Most of them are in a fairly predictable
>format.

I considered it. Then I saw some descriptions that made me cringe. I don't
doubt that it's possible, but I'm fairly sure that the shapefiles already
exist
http://airspace.blm.gov/mapping/blm/tutorial.html
so I'm reluctant to put a lot of effort into the parsing.

It's tempting though...

--kyler

I just received my first Sporty's DVD with all of the approaches.
They are all PDF files, vectors so you can zoom as much as you want, and
they stay clear.
Pretty cool.





"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "MichaelR" > said:
> >Sporty's is now selling the entire set of FAA TPP's on a DVD for $9.95:
> >http://sportys.com/pilotshop/pages/chartviewer.cfm
>
> Are the TPPs themselve in PDF format, or what? It says you need a Windows
> PC, but if the that's only for the wizzy chart viewer program and the
> actual data is in a non-proprietary format, I might subscribe.
>
> The screen shot http://sportys.com/pilotshop/images/step4l.gif looks an
> AWFUL lot like a web browser with an Adobe Acrobat plugin looking at a
> PDF.
>
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> FAQs are like flatulence. Any asshole can produce them.
> -- Toni L

In article >,
MichaelR > wrote:
>I just received my first Sporty's DVD with all of the approaches.
>They are all PDF files, vectors so you can zoom as much as you want, and
>they stay clear.

Can you email me a couple of them to look at? I'm tempted to buy these
DVDs and something to display (or possibly print) them on.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

In a previous article, "MichaelR" > said:
>I just received my first Sporty's DVD with all of the approaches.
>They are all PDF files, vectors so you can zoom as much as you want, and
>they stay clear.
>Pretty cool.

Cool. I ordered the DVD. If I can, I'll write a program to do the
browsing and displaying for Linux and Mac OS X.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Can't get out of 'vi'? Common problem. Don't worry, I'm here to help. Just
log in as root and type "init 0". It works for pretty much any problem you
might have with Linux. No, no, no. Thank /you/. -- Mikey Raeder

There's an airport diagram on alt.binaries.pictures.aviation.

The PDFs have weird names, so you can't find a specific chart or airport by
just browsing around the disc. The included program is easy, and apparently
uses an XML file to point to the right PDF.




"Ben Jackson" > wrote in message
news:3WGdc.102965$gA5.1369481@attbi_s03...
> In article >,
> MichaelR > wrote:
> >I just received my first Sporty's DVD with all of the approaches.
> >They are all PDF files, vectors so you can zoom as much as you want, and
> >they stay clear.
>
> Can you email me a couple of them to look at? I'm tempted to buy these
> DVDs and something to display (or possibly print) them on.
>
> --
> Ben Jackson
> >
> http://www.ben.com/

In article >,
MichaelR > wrote:
>There's an airport diagram on alt.binaries.pictures.aviation.
>
>The PDFs have weird names, so you can't find a specific chart or airport by
>just browsing around the disc. The included program is easy, and apparently
>uses an XML file to point to the right PDF.

I downloaded that and converted it to 480x640x16 grayscale and 800x600x16.
It looks like a ebook/pda/tablet sort of device with either of those
resolutions and a 6"+ screen could be a great platform.

In GIF format each plate would be 40-60k (perhaps less, that ORD runway
diagram is very complicated). That means a DVD full of those PDFs, even
if full, would fit on a big compact flash card in GIF format (pre-scaled
to the device resolution).

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

Since the government can't legally copyright their products, I wonder how this digital model will work out
for them.....

"Whit S." wrote:

> FYI, NACO will be charging for their product...
>
> (smackey) wrote in message >...
> > (Ditch) wrote in message >...
> > > Are there any alternatives to the Jeppesen binders? Even their plastic ones are
> > > kinda pricey. Thanks...
> > >
> > >Yes... buy the NOS plates and charts.